The inventor of XML ought to be put on trial for crimes against humanity.
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Eliza, old queer aunt (elizafox@mst3k.interlinked.me)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 02:13:50 CET 
Eliza, old queer aunt
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Eliza, old queer aunt (elizafox@mst3k.interlinked.me)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 02:22:53 CET
Eliza, old queer aunt
@Elucidating @samis SGML
and then became SGML, reinvented
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Tomas SA2TMS (tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 13:45:47 CET 
Tomas SA2TMS
There's nothing wrong with XML. In fact JSON folks are busy reinventing everything XML does, poorly -
Tomas SA2TMS (tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 14:08:05 CET
Tomas SA2TMS
What one's wire format looks like is also of very little consequence. Besides, "Content-Encoding: gzip" exists, as does ASN.1 -
pettter ✅ (pettter@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 14:22:55 CET 
pettter ✅
@tomas @elizafox The more I've worked with various systems and infrastructures, the more I've come to appreciate XML.
Not, you know, a lot more, but still. It can be parsed, zipped, handled and edited by both computers and (awkwardly) humans, there's language support in a plethora of languages, with clear separation of direct memory allocation, order of arguments etc. etc. There's namespaces with potential renaming and clear inclusions. It's eXtensible.
It's not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than many alternatives.clacke@libranet.de ❌ repeated this. -
Eliza, old queer aunt (elizafox@mst3k.interlinked.me)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 17:56:01 CET
Eliza, old queer aunt
@pettter @tomas I think it needs a serious overhaul and it's very much abused
It's parseable by computer, but not terribly efficiently
most of the use cases are for enterprise and that complexity is not necessary for most applications
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danielside (danielside@gs.dnlsd.nom.es)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 19:48:31 CET 
danielside
xml and xsl are among the greatest inventions Hallå Kitteh likes this.MMN-o ✅⃠ repeated this. -
Tomas SA2TMS (tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Wednesday, 07-Feb-2018 19:59:32 CET
Tomas SA2TMS
@elizafox @pettter Those are a lot of assertions with very little backing them up. XML is great for when you need to archive or exchange structured data. Plus the toolset is powerful. There's no need to reinvent that only with a different syntax like I see happening with JSON
Efficiency depends on how you use it - XML with liberal use of attributes tends to be more compact than JSON. Of course if performance is critical (like in HPC) then you shouldn't use text based formats to begin with
JSON has its uses of course, but as always: use the right tool for the job
</rant> -
Ben Pfaff (blp@quitter.se)s status den Thursday, 08-Feb-2018 00:21:53 CET 
Ben Pfaff
@tomas @elizafox XML is big and complicated, JSON is simple. A production-quality JSON parser in C is <2000 lines. Sometimes this matters. ☠️ Grumpy Oldman likes this. -
Tomas SA2TMS (tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Thursday, 08-Feb-2018 11:01:03 CET
Tomas SA2TMS
Sure. Not that libexpat is particularly large at ~18 kloc. libxerces-c on the other hand.. -
MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Thursday, 08-Feb-2018 17:20:10 CET 
MMN-o ✅⃠
@blp Then again, the JSON feature list is this long: |--| and XML's is: |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| (not to scale) -
Ben Pfaff (blp@quitter.se)s status den Thursday, 08-Feb-2018 19:15:59 CET
Ben Pfaff
@mmn Absolutely. If you don't need the features of XML, JSON is a reasonable choice. If you do need XML, you know where to get it ;-) -
Zash (zash@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Friday, 09-Feb-2018 07:29:36 CET 
Zash
@blp @mmn More likely is that people who need XML reinvents namespaces and schema for JSON. Badly. CBOR is the cool thing tho! MMN-o ✅⃠ likes this. -
tuttle_(defunct) (tuttle@somsants.net)s status den Sunday, 11-Feb-2018 11:01:56 CET 
tuttle_(defunct)
@tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se Everyone was talking about this new fandangled API technology. When I got round to looking at it.. "ah, it's xmp-rpc" -
Tomas SA2TMS (tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se)s status den Sunday, 11-Feb-2018 11:53:51 CET
Tomas SA2TMS
@tuttle One always finds one's burden again. But the webdevs teaches us the higher fidelity that negates standards and reinvents RPC. They too conclude that all is well. This fediverse henceforth without a master seems to them neither sterile nor futile. Each Atom process on their computers, each line of redundant work written on those star-filled nights, in themselves, forms a world. The struggle itself toward reimplementation is enough to fill their hearts. One must imagine webdevs happy. clacke@libranet.de ❌ och Hallå Kitteh repeated this. -
unsupervised web dev (meredithmatthews@mastodon.technology)s status den Tuesday, 13-Mar-2018 04:21:55 CET 
unsupervised web dev
@tomas @clacke I don't really care which one I have to use, just please for the love of maude stop putting both in my projects!
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Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)s status den Tuesday, 13-Mar-2018 05:07:51 CET 
Hallå Kitteh
@meredithmatthews @tomas
Think positive!
Celebrate the fact that they didn't also add ini, toml and yaml files, and a configuration DSL in Python and/or Ruby. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)s status den Tuesday, 13-Mar-2018 05:09:12 CET
Hallå Kitteh
@tomas @meredithmatthews
(all of which are in isolation perfectly valid choices of configuration file format!) -
Friday Knight and his merry band of weekend warriors (ayy@soc.h4x.group)s status den Tuesday, 13-Mar-2018 05:41:27 CET 
Friday Knight and his merry band of weekend warriors
@clacke @tomas @meredith_matthews Entropy always increases. Hallå Kitteh likes this. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)s status den Tuesday, 13-Mar-2018 06:01:58 CET
Hallå Kitteh
@ayy @tomas @meredithmatthews Not on my watch.
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